Welcome to our first discussion of Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes and our first ever discussion with Shelf Explored Book Club! This week we are talking about Part 1, pages 3-154. Jacilyn and Michaela discuss their general observations of this first part of the book along with Coriolanus and his family, the Capitol during this time period, the early stages of the Hunger Games, and the development of the Hunger Games.
Spoiler Warning!!! This post contains many spoilers for Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, as well as The Hunger Games Trilogy.
Michaela: So far I have really enjoyed reading the book. Getting a backstory on Coriolanus has been very interesting. I am glad that he didn’t start off as some innocent, cute kid and that he is actually still a little bit dis-likeable at the beginning. I feel that if he had been a super nice, cute kid I don’t know that I would have believed his descent into who he is as President Snow. Also, getting a look into the capitol through the eyes of capitol citizens really shows the corrupt world that they live in.
Jacilyn: That’s really interesting, because I had a really hard time getting into the book until the last chapter of part one, to be honest. The insight into the rebellion was fascinating, especially the fact that the people in the Capitol went through so many extremely traumatic things. It’s also really interesting to see the Hunger Games in the early years. But in general, I still don’t like Coriolanus. It’s obvious that a romance is brewing here, but the way that he talks about the districts and tributes is really disgusting to me. Actually, the way he talks about most people is kind of disgusting. He doesn’t seem to have a whole lot of respect for other people. His concern is almost always focused on propping himself up and moving himself forward. I do appreciate the background of his family being on extremely hard times, but I still don’t find him very sympathetic. I’m probably supposed to find him more sympathetic than I do, honestly.
Michaela: Ya I actually found it kind of hard to get hooked during the first few chapters. Other than the info we got about the rebellion and the war, I found that I had a hard time caring about Coriolanus. I think a lot of that had to do with knowing Coriolanus later in his life, so I know what he becomes and I can see those traits already when he’s only 18. Like you said, it’s like everything he does is about his looks, his family name, and seeming above it all. I think seeing this part of his life helps me understand a lot about him already, but just because I understand his history doesn’t mean I like him because he still doesn’t start out as a likeable person.
Jacilyn: Let’s talk more about Coriolanus and his family in general.
Michaela: So my main two things for his family is Tigris being his cousin, mind blown. Also, Grandma’am singing the anthem while bombs rained down on their heads, iconic. She’s insane, and I disagree with her opinions and lifestyle but still. And the fact that they are as poor as they are, gives me a different perspective on Coriolanus, and makes me wonder why he doesn’t carry that knowledge of being poor and without necessities into later life. As President Snow he really seems to not give a shit about anybody’s sufferings.
Jacilyn: My mind was absolutely blown when I read that Tigris was his cousin. And their bond is incredibly close. So knowing that Tigris helps the rebels in the original trilogy makes me really curious about how their story unfolds. Tigris was one of the most fascinating minor characters in the series to me, so I’m so excited that we get to learn more about her. I also love that they call Grandma’am Grandma’am. She’s a matriarch with shitty views, but one helluva matriarch nonetheless.
The fact that his family is so poor seems to be his biggest secret and he’s obviously ashamed of it. But he’s also determined to live what Grandma’am has said his whole life… “Snow lands on top.” So I’m not surprised that he ends up President in the long run, and I’m honestly not even surprised that he doesn’t carry any empathy for those less well off than him at that point either, because he sees being poor as the most shameful thing.
Michaela: Yes, I’m very curious to know how Tigris and Coriolanus’s relationship unfolds through the book because right now, in the beginning, they seem like best friends as well as close family. She even seems to still have the same views as her family and the capitol. But you can already see her start to change as she sees these new tributes treated in the way that they are. I found that something along the lines of “as Grandma’am said” or “your own father used to say”(pg. 77), this is still such a common thing. Growing up the only opinions you know are your parents and family’s. Coriolanus, Tigris, and the Academy students only have this one view of the districts, and that is that they are “beasts” or “animals” or “rebels” (which is almost like a slur in a way, in this society), because of their family and being so sheltered in the capitol.
Jacilyn: I’m trying to remember as I read that the people in the Capitol are being fed propaganda, and that after suffering through the rebellion, they are bound to harbor deep anger at the districts and a lot of associated trauma as well. But at the same time, there’s a reason that the districts rebelled…. Obviously they weren’t being treated well even before the war, especially since Coriolanus mentions that the Capitol was mainly for the wealthy to begin with. It was a place for elites. But the students aren’t fully to blame for their mindset, I don’t think. The adults in the Capitol, yes. But the students are a product of their parents’ bigotry and the Capitol’s propaganda, and that’s not entirely their fault.
Michaela: It’s definitely not the student’s fault, the Capitol gives no option to educate yourself or to even change your opinions. If you do it’s seen as being against the Capitol and being a ‘rebel sympathizer’ or just a ‘rebel’.
Michaela: I feel like I have a lot of thoughts on the Capitol we get to see in this book so far. What were some Capitol and society things that stood out to you?
Jacilyn: Well, first of all, the Capitol in this book is definitely different from the Capitol we see in the original trilogy, to say the least. I don’t remember there being any signs of the war at all when Katniss visits the Capitol, but Coriolanus is describing some of the damage that still exists around him. I also noticed that the extravagant lifestyle we see citizens of the Capitol living is not yet in place because they’re still recovering from the rebellion. But this context is helping me understand the extravagance in the Capitol better. Do you remember reading in the originals that people in the Capitol would purge after they ate so they could keep eating all the food? That’s definitely a direct outcome of the war.
Michaela: It is so different from the Capitol we know later on. We are looking at a 65 year gap between this book and the trilogy, which leaves a long long time to recover and forget. Coriolanus even says “people have short memories in the Capitol”(pg. 12). Learning that the Rebellion completely cut off the Capital for 2 YEARS, that was incredible. And then the things people succumbed to do, like Nero Price sawing off a dead woman’s leg for food. Absolutely horrible and brutal.
Also, we learn about things happening in the Capitol that we can actually see happening in some ways during this pandemic. In the Capitol it's technically illegal to hoard; today in our world it's looked down upon to hoard and they even have been regulating certain goods because people were hoarding so much that we had shortages of toilet paper, bread, canned goods, etc. Another quote that stood out to me to relate to many people in the Capitol and can parallel to the real world was “what a luxury trash would be” (pg. 7) and “self-medicating was a city-wide epidemic” (pg. 15). This is a very real problem in our world and it makes the Capitol more real and relatable.
Jacilyn: The way that Collins describes that Capitol makes it easy to imagine how the US could easily become Panem. All of the wealthy elites moving to the Capitol, and the “lower” citizens being distributed into districts to serve the Capitol. There are a lot of parallels, from the hoarding to the way the wealthy view those less fortunate than them. But, of course, that’s what makes dystopians so interesting to me in the first place. The fact that it’s really not too difficult to imagine something of this nature happening in reality.
There’s such a stark contrast between the Capitol in this book and the Capitol in the originals, and the interesting thing about that is that it’s kind of led me to separate the two stories in my head as I read. But I have a feeling that as we continue reading, we’ll start to see more similarities pop up. I think that’s already happening a bit with Dr. Gaul and her efforts in her lab. You see the introduction of genetically modified creatures AND humans. I’m wondering if the experiments on the Avoxes Coriolanus sees in glass cages with animal parts attached to them are the beginnings of the extreme fashion that we see in the originals.
Jacilyn: Speaking of Dr. Gaul. What are your thoughts on the Games themselves? There are obviously some differences between what we see here and what we see in the original trilogy.
Michaela: First of all Dr. Gaul is terrifying. I find it interesting that this is the 10th annual Hunger Games and yet there’s hardly any structure to it. I think this shows how hesitant and withdrawn the population of the Capitol has been from the idea of the Games. Even the creator of the Games, Dean Highbottom, self medicates with morphling, presumably to deal with the world he has created. The Capitol doesn’t even try to hide how little they think of the Districts (i.e. beasts and animals, even putting them in livestock trailers and a zoo cage). I feel that during the 74th and 75th Games the Capitol residents view the District tributes almost as toys or game pieces or celebrities. We can see during Coriolanus’s Academy class meetings that during the 10th Games is where the ‘beast to toy’ view really starts to change and the Hunger Games, as we know them, begin to form.
Jacilyn: Dr. Gaul is absolutely terrifying. I noticed the same thing about Dean Highbottom too. Coriolanus sees him get uncomfortable almost when Dr. Gaul mentions that he gave the suggestion for the Games in the first place. And after Arachne’s funeral, Highbottom approaches Coriolanus and says “It’s amazing, how little things change. After all the killing. After all the agonized promises to remember the cost. After all of that, I can’t distinguish the bud from the blossom.” (pg 131). I read that as Highbottom referring to the districts as the bud and the Capitol as the blossom, and that even after the war where the rebels fought back against the way they were treated, the Capitol continues to do the same things, in spite of all the lives that were lost in the Capitol due to this same behavior and control before. The Capitol is remembering the cost, they’re remembering their dead. But their way of doing that is through vengeance and cruelty. Honestly, we see the same thing in the American justice system. No one learns in the long run. But don’t get me started on that…..
Michaela: This book accompanied with the original trilogy really reflects our world and especially America in the saying ‘history always repeats itself’. The Rebellion against the Capitol happened because of oppression, the Capitol “won” and responded with cruelty and oppression which then resulted in yet another Rebellion. And THEN President Coin after the 75th Games wanted to have “one final Hunger Games but with Capitol children”. It seems to be this never ending cycle.
Michaela: It seems to me like the entire Capitol is actually really uncomfortable with the Hunger Games. What are your thoughts on that?
Jacilyn: I agree with that. I think that’s part of why Dr. Gaul is trying so hard to find ways to make the Games more “watchable.” The people of the Capitol definitely see District citizens as less-than, but the way the Games stand under Dr. Gaul, it’s literally just children shoved into an old arena to kill each other. There’s no spectacle, besides the death. That’s all there is. And I think that there might be some guilt behind the discomfort, especially when you look at Dean Highbottom. The ideas that Coriolanus suggests to Gaul for the games are aspects that make it easier for people of the Capitol to trick themselves into thinking that this is the right thing to do; he suggests feeding the tributes so that they’re stronger in the arena, and he suggests the sponsor concept where Capitol citizens can send gifts to their favorite tributes. Eventually they implement the people like Effie and Cinna who almost spoil the tributes with opulence. I have a suspicion that all of those changes do increase the viewer ratings because they help mask the horror of sending children to fight to the death. Between that and the morphling addiction we see referenced in the originals, I think the way that Capitol citizens see the games really becomes a coping mechanism to prevent the extreme guilt of being a part of something so atrocious. As of the 10th Games, we don’t even see the existence of Careers yet. Marcus is a District 2 tribute and they are typically Careers, and he certainly has no desire to be there in the way that District 1 and 2 tributes do later on.
Michaela: Ya they’re definitely morphing the Games into more of a sporting event while also, I think, growing the propaganda of how ‘honorable’ it is to be a tribute. During the 74th Games we see how Capitol members are not only excited to watch the Games but also see the tributes as noble sacrifices while also seeing them as lesser than Capitol citizens. It’s a very compelling change in the collective interpretation of the games. We see the capitol even now, during the 10th, trying to create solidarity in the Capitol by the existence of the Games, the use of ‘rebel’ as a slur, districts seen as animals from a “hopeless, brutish world” and “from another world” (pg 47), and that on the radio you can only listen to “marches and propaganda music”. The development of these Games is a lot less structured than I originally thought they would have started.
Michaela: So we obviously can’t talk about the Hunger Games and not discuss the tributes. What are some of your feelings about the 10th Games’ tributes and how they are being treated?
Jacilyn: Well, immediately we see that the tributes are treated differently once they’re chosen. Although the Peacekeepers are far from gentle with the tributes in the original trilogy, we still see them sent to the Capitol on a plush train, with every luxury they could possibly want, and Capitol advisors like Effie who seem genuinely pleased to see them. For the 10th Hunger Games, we see the tributes driven in a truck bed, caged in, and deposited in a zoo for people to gawk at. No food. No one even thinks to feed them until Coriolanus suggests it, and even then Dr. Gaul only seems to agree because that will allow the tributes more strength going into the arena, which makes the Games more interesting to watch. It appears that the people of the Capitol don’t see them as human at all, or at least they see them as more brutish humans. They seem to see them as worthy of death without a second thought, whereas in later Games the tributes are treated as noble sacrifices in commemoration of the rebellion, and some Capitol citizens seem to truly mourn the loss of life while still seeing it as a necessity for some reason. It’s an interesting change in thinking, but at the same time the result is the same….. Children killing each other, because they have no choice, all in the name of reparations and revenge.
Michaela: The difference in treatment between the 10th and the 74th Games is astounding. In this book, the amount of times Capitol citizens refer to the tributes and district citizens as lesser human, primitive, animals, livestock, beasts, etc. is disgusting. The Capitol has no sympathy or care for the district people at all during this time. So through the effort to make the Hunger Games more enticing for viewers they then had to make the tributes more presentable and honorable. Then the result of this, during Katniss’s time in the Games, it almost backfires on the Capitol because people begin to actually care about the tributes which is not what Dr. Gaul or Highbottom and many others actually want to happen.
We see Effie, Cinna, Cinna’s team, Tigris, and many more become attached emotionally to the tributes and then turn on the Capitol in their own ways. I think that right now during the 10th Games is really the beginning of the end for the Capitol, because instead of realizing what they’re doing is causing harm, violence, and disgust amongst Capitol and District citizens alike, the Capitol just things “oh let’s just make it even worse but also make people care, that’s a good idea”. The fluff of interviews and parties begins to wear off, it took 65 years to cause another major uprising but it still happened.
Jacilyn: I think we see that shift in thinking start to happen with the mentors and how many of them treat their tributes, also. Not all of them, but many of them start becoming attached to their tributes. We even see some mentors start voicing their distaste of the Games in general, beyond Sejanus.
Another thing I noticed is that during the discussions between tributes and mentors, we start to see the Capitol taking an interest in the special skills of each tribute. Many of these relate directly to the district they’re from, but as we see with Lucy Gray and her performance capabilities, other skills are valued and utilized in the hopes of gaining sponsors and the general sympathy and support of Capitol citizens. I really like that we’re seeing glimpses into the evolution of the Games because it provides so much context to the extravagance of what Katniss’ Games become. And, as we’ve already discussed, we can see the parallels between our own reality and what’s being described in this series. When you study the history of genocide, it all begins with small offences and acts of control, and when you understand that, it suddenly makes it a lot easier to see how things can escalate to large scale events such as the Killing Fields and the Armenian genocide. So far, this book has made the events of Katniss’ lifetime seem a whole lot less fantastical.
Michaela: I thought it was really interesting how in this Games the mentors are Capitol teenagers. I wonder where the switch from Capitol kids to District victors comes into play. Many of the mentors in this book begin to develop some connection to their tribute but many others only view them as the means to get their ‘prize’ at the end of the Games. The tributes are still just a game piece to most of them, even Coriolanus can’t help but view Lucy Gray as his game piece to win the prize. I find Lucy Gray to be a very entertaining and captivating character, I never feel like I quite know if she’s being real or playing Coriolanus. I think she is very clever, and though Coriolanus is also fairly clever, he lacks the ‘street smarts’ that Lucy Gray has had to develop through her life in the Districts.
Jacilyn: I actually have a prediction. I was thinking that I could definitely see Lucy Gray playing Coriolanus to help her survive. She’s a showman. She is good at using her charms to help her survive. And although I do think that Coriolanus has legitimate feelings for her, and legitimate affection…. He still ultimately sees her as a pawn to get him the prize. I suspect that perhaps Coriolanus finds out that Lucy Gray was using him for survival, and that causes any sympathy and empathy he might have had for her and those outside the Capitol to disappear, leading to the President Snow we all know and despise.
Jacilyn: As you mentioned, in spite of some mentors gaining some sympathy for their tributes, we see others treat their tributes like animals. Arachne pays the price for doing just that to her tribute, the girl from District 10. She gets her throat slit after taunting Brandy with food. How does this change the course of the 10th Hunger Games?
Michaela: Arachne’s death sparks a more active approach to the Games and the treatment of the tributes. Coriolanus calls Arachne’s death a “casualty of cheap laughs” (pg. 129), and he is completely right. Arachne died because she wanted to be in the spotlight and used a starving, abused girl to get it. While her death was clearly her own fault, President Ravinstill of Panem, Dr. Gaul, and others are trying to use Arachne as a martyr for the war against the ‘rebels’. President Ravinstill says “So we mourn another victim of the criminal rebellion that yet besieges us. Her death was as valiant as any on the battlefield, her loss more profound as we claim to be at peace” (pg. 129). Honestly this is such a familiar language to our real world amongst authority figures, especially recently.
The Capitol is taking the death of someone and lying about it to promote their own violent and biased acts against others that they keep in a state of suffering just to hold power over them. I think this begins to shape the Games into an even more violent form. A violent action directly against a Capitol kid that is very public, gives the Capitol the permission to punish the District children even though they weren’t involved. It’s like a vicious cycle of events.
Jacilyn: I really love what you just said… “Arachne died because she wanted to be in the spotlight and used a starving, abused girl to get it.” That is EXACTLY what Coriolanus is doing, but in an entirely different way. That’s such an interesting juxtaposition that I hadn’t thought of. And you’re right. People in authority are way too often experts at propagandizing the tragedy of others, for all the wrong reasons. The cycle of violence is vicious, and I think some people in power in Panem want the cycle to continue. Dr. Gaul has made it very clear that she does not value anyone’s life, unless it can be used to advance her own goals of twisting the Hunger Games into something as vicious as possible. I think there are many people in the Capitol that are victims of the propaganda, and would otherwise rally against a disgusting display of cruelty like hanging the bullet-ridden body of a child from a hook in a parade. That doesn’t absolve them of guilt, though.
This leads me to another prediction, actually. I am wondering if the bombing of the arena was orchestrated by Gaul as an excuse for more retaliation against the districts. Her muttations are clearly something important to her, and she seems to use any opportunity afforded to her to use them. She also clearly doesn’t care if Capitol citizens get harmed in the process, as she proved when she poisoned Clemmie just to make a point. Snow even thinks “the Capitol was supposed to protect them” (pg 116) after Clemmie is attacked. Multiple children, both tributes and mentors, were killed or injured after the bombing of the arena, and that “act of rebellion” allowed the Capitol to use Marcus as an example.
Michaela: I like your theory that Dr. Gaul may be behind the bombing, or maybe the Capitol at least. I’ve been wondering why the Rebels would choose to blow up the arena when District kids were in there. But I suppose we shouldn’t be surprised if it was the Rebels either, all we have to do is look at President Coin of District 13 during Katniss’s time. Coin hardly seemed to care about the lives of District or Capitol people because she just wanted to get to the Capitol. It seems like change, in this world, whether it be for good or bad comes with the cost of lives and the authorities don’t care whose lives are lost. However, the Capitol blowing up the arena to make a point or to have a spectacle to support their own claims of the “rebellion that still besieges us” (pg. 129) seems very believable and even likely. I thought the response to the bombing was interesting yet not surprising; the Capitol kids were highly prioritized over the tributes, and the tributes only got a veterinarian for healthcare. Then even when the vet requested better facilities for the tributes, they were denied. Then the funerals of Arachne and those killed in the bombing was a grotesque display of outrageous totalitarianism.
Jacilyn: I actually gasped out loud when I read that they were only allowed medical help from a veterinarian. I don’t know why that surprised me, but between that and hanging that poor child by a hook I had a whole new wave of disgust towards the Capitol. And, honestly, Coriolanus too. I can recognize all of the trauma that he has lived through and continues to live through, but the way he thinks about other people is truly revolting to me.
Another thing from the bombing is afterwards, when Lysistrata told everyone that Jessup saved her. It was like no one wanted to hear that. No one wanted to believe that that was possible, because no one wants to see the tributes as humans. We keep coming back to this theme of Capitol citizens finding ways to avoid seeing the tributes as humans worthy of life, to avoid the guilt associated with these displays of outright cruelty by the Capitol. So everyone is simultaneously plagued with the guilt and PTSD of the war and what they were forced to do to survive while facing the guilt of being associated with the ever-increasing displays of heartless cruelty against the districts. Is an interesting look at culpability and coping mechanisms.
Michaela: How Coriolanus can continue to view District kids as beneath him even though he has also been in hard times for most of his life is honestly astounding. The Capitol has like hardwired cruelty and willful ignorance into its residence. No one wanted to hear Lysistrata defend Jessup, they literally cannot view any act as worthy if it’s done by a District citizen. I think we are watching the Capitol’s switch from self-medicating to ignoring their actions against the Districts and just children in general, to just outright wilful ignorance so that they can pretend they didn’t know. We see that in Effie and Cinna’s team especially during Katniss’s games, they never let themselves see the world for how it was. They saw what they wanted to see, and the Capitol promotes that sparkly view of the world so that they can continue to be corrupt and violent. The Capitol citizens are super hesitant to treat the tributes as human, and considering they are being kept in a cage at the zoo, what else should they see them as. Only the Capitol children were willing to get close and give food to tributes, and even that was tainted because we know that parents always influence the views their children start out with. I found it fascinating that only the children were brave enough to get close, anytime the book talked about children bringing food to various tributes the parents never accompanied them.
Jacilyn: I really enjoy that Collins writes the citizens of the Capitol in that way. It is so much more nuanced than having a city full of people who enjoy the cruelty. In other dystopian worlds, we see people that may not fully agree with what those in power are doing, but generally it’s nothing to the point of self medication on a mass scale. The cruelty of those in power don’t always impact people outside of the rebels in as direct a way, to the point of trauma.
Children are the most innocent when it comes to their perceptions of people, and it’s telling that although they obviously have some fear passed down from their parents, they were willing to be curious and step forward to be near the tributes. Which makes the Hunger Games all the more disgusting, of course.
Jacilyn: Well, I think I hit all my talking points for part one. I’m excited to see how things progress once the Games finally start in part two!
Michaela: We hit all mine too. I think part two will really pick up in action and I am ready for it!
There was a lot of new characters and new information about Panem in this first part of the book. What did you think about Coriolanus, do you find him sympathetic? What about this early version of the Hunger Games, what’s your take on their developments? Does Dr. Gaul creep you out as much as us? Let us know in the comments below!
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