Hi there! Welcome to our second discussion of Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. This week we cover Part 2, pages 157-320. Below, we’ll be discussing the lead up to and culmination of the 10th Hunger Games, the impact of Lucy Gray on the citizens of the Capitol and the Games, the Snow and Plinth families, and a surprising twist.
Spoiler Warning!!! This post contains many spoilers for Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, as well as The Hunger Games Trilogy.
Michaela: So I thought part two really picked up from part one. Obviously with the Games actually starting it was going to. I found that I couldn’t put it down at some points because I needed to know what was going to happen, especially in the arena. But even outside of the arena, the drama was pretty intense.
Jacilyn: I finally started getting more interested during this part of the book. It’s at the point where I have so many questions that I want answered, so I want to just keep reading. Especially with the ending!!!! But, we’ll get to that.
Michaela: This was a pretty dark section of the book I think. There wasn’t much in the way of happiness for anyone really. Though one part of this section that I found hilarious was how much Lucky Flickerman absolutely sucks at being a host. Lucky has nothing on Caesar Flickerman during Katniss’s time. I always felt like Caesar was completely aware of what was happening at all times and understood the consequences of tributes words and actions whether or not he really reported on them. Lucky is honestly hopeless with his magic tricks, no chemistry with any of the guests he interviews, and that poor bird, Jubilee. (#FreeJubilee) Though Lucky isn’t the best host I thought these first iterations of the Hunger Games interviews and the lead up to them was very intriguing.
Jacilyn: Lucky is…. Not even a little bit lucky! But honestly, I enjoyed the little bit of humor that came with his introduction. He was terrible at the news, and even worse with people. But at the same time, he’s kind of leading the way for the spectacle that the pre-Game interviews become in Katniss’ time. The difference is that Caesar knows how to be in charge of the spectacle. I love that Lucy Gray manages to captivate the audience in a good way, in spite of Lucky. I thought the song that she sang was really interesting, and almost reminds me of “The Hanging Tree” from Mockingjay. Which makes me wonder if some of the forbidden songs that Katniss knows are passed down from the Covey. And speaking of Lucy Gray’s song…. I felt like Lucy Gray was sending a message to Coriolanus with the song, since she didn’t rehearse it in front of him before the interview. But I could see it going two ways… either she sang the song to assert her independence from Coriolanus, or that the subject of the song was him. But it seemed very purposeful to me.
Michaela: I think Lucy Gray’s hold on the Capitol people is because they have been so starved of entertainment and music. We know that the Capitol only plays marches and such on the radio, and though Pluribus had a night club of sorts no one seems to know much music. But, since the war, the Capitol has had nothing for entertainment besides the Games and even that we know that most are averse to it. I thought Lucy Gray’s song could be for Coriolanus a little bit, but I viewed it mostly as a death or punishment sentence for whoever she left behind that she talked about betraying her. She told Coriolanus about it being a message to her Covey cousin about it. I thought this really showed just how clever and ruthless Lucy Gray can be, and I think she saw the benefit in singing that song not just for payback but to solidify Coriolanus’s feelings for her because she knew it would make him jealous. Lucy Gray is just a great character to read. She speaks of the Covey so much during this book that I’m curious to know why we never hear of them during the original trilogy. I assume they got absorbed into District 12 like Lucy Gray talked about. But then that brings up how the Covey still exist during the time of Districts. Is travel between Districts more common during this time period? Or was Panem and Districts not formed too long before Coriolanus’s time? I would really love a history book on Panem.
Jacilyn: I’ve had the same thoughts on the Covey, actually. Although Lucy Gray has mentioned them, she doesn’t really give much more insight besides the fact that they are entertainers and travel. There’s obvious parallels between the Covey and the Romani, and I’d really like to get more context on them. I think the other part of the Capitols’ love of Lucy Gray is the fact that she comes off as more than what they expect of a district citizen. We see Coriolanus reinforcing this idea by always mentioning how unfair it is that Lucy Gray was picked as tribute, when the Covey aren’t REALLY district. And the frustrating part of that is that a better human being than Coriolanus would have made the case that Lucy Gray proves that district citizens aren’t less-than. Even Grandma’am starts to see Lucy Gray as someone worth pitying at the very least, and she has some of the deepest prejudices of all.
Michaela: Lucy Gray really does capture the Capitol’s attention because to them she ‘shines’ which they don’t expect District people to do. She even befriends the Peacekeepers who are guarding her and Pluribus, who has never met her, offers his guitar for her interview song and even says she is, “someone who still knows how to have fun” (pg. 165). I think she is also teaching Coriolanus a lot about how to be an entertainer, or at least be better at this facade he is trying to keep up. We get even more insight into Coriolanus in this section, and some of his actions actually surprised me. What were some of the things you noted about him in part two?
Jacilyn: Well, I think one of the most important quotes about Coriolanus from this entire book thus far was from when he is writing his essay for Gaul about the positives of the war, Coriolanus talks about “The security that could only come with power. The ability to control things” (pg 180). This is a direct look at the President Snow of the future. Speaking of Pluribus, he lets loose that Dean Highbottom and Coriolanus’ dad used to be friends, and that makes me wonder if there’s more to Coriolanus’ dad than he realizes. We also see him inadvertently helping Sejanus more, which continues to make him a target for Dr. Gaul, who he is attempting to avoid the scrutiny of.
Michaela: I was wondering if Coriolanus’s dad had something to do with the idea for the Hunger Games. Highbottom is credited for the idea but maybe Coriolanus’s dad was part of that. Sejanus is constantly being saved and helped by Coriolanus, who also keeps trying to stress to himself how much they are not friends. I feel like Coriolanus is forever trying to convince himself he has no friends when at the same time he is always helping Sejanus, Lysistrata, he calls Festus his ‘best friend’, etc. He is so afraid to accept that he has, wants, and needs friends. Then his actions with Sejanus definitely make him a target for Dr. Gaul. I like how Highbottom is trying to help Coriolanus in these little ways, like telling him to sit Sejanus by the door before they revealed Marcus’ body in the Games. Another quote of Coriolanus’ that I thought was important was, “courage in battle was necessary because of someone else’s poor planning” (pg 182). This really stood out to me because the next rebellion war while he is president is because of his poor planning and his poor governing of Panem. It’s like he never learns, I feel that something must happen later in this book to erase all these lessons he is supposedly learning.
Jacilyn: I feel like the only person he fully trusts to have his back is Tigris. He’s grown up with all of these people since childhood, but no one but Tigris actually knows the real him. Which, okay, can we talk about Tigris having a craving for RAW MEAT already!? Coriolanus’ main focus with this entire mentorship is to get the prize, the monetary prize that will allow the Snow family to finally be secure again. And the money allows him to gain even more power, ensuring that him and his family never have to fear starvation or eviction again. Obviously, I still dislike him a lot. But I feel like there’s a reason he keeps helping Sejanus, and I think that comes from a small amount of mercy.
Michaela: I think in return Tigris only really trusts Coriolanus because the Snow family has to be secretive to survive in the Capitol. Tigris already having a craving for raw meat is really creepy but I also think that it could be because having meat is so far and few between. I’m sure there have been times that they’ve been so starved that they’ve eaten a little before cooking it. Also, can we talk about how Tigris is super smart. The way she figured out EXACTLY what happened to Coriolanus in the arena is insane, she is really talented at seeing things for how they are.
Also, Tigris really schooled Coriolanus when it came to looking down on people, “try not to look down on people who had to choose between death and disgrace” (pg. 176). Coriolanus clearly has not been paying as much attention as he thought, especially to Tigris. She has clearly made some sort of sacrifice and it was most likely prostitution because at the beginning of the book Coriolanus talks about how that has been a popular thing for those struggling in the Capitol. However, he then rules it out because he thinks she would never do that. Even when it comes to his family, who are the closest people he has, he is still so self-absorbed. Then when it comes to Lucy Gray, I wonder if he really does have feelings for her or the idea of her and what he can get from having her around or her winning.
Jacilyn: There’s obviously a world of difference between Coriolanus’ heart and Tigris’ heart. Coriolanus has made sacrifices himself, but nothing to the point of Tigris selling herself to get them money. He is entirely self-absorbed in all ways. I have a feeling that this ideological divide is really going to be what drives them apart in the long run.
I think he truly does care about Lucy Gray, both because she has helped him gain power and also in a romantic way. The problem with him is that even though he has these feelings for her, HIS rise to power and HIS winning of the prize is more important to him than saving her life. During the Games, he allows himself a moment to fantasize about what could happen if she won the Hunger Games, and he says “....he got to keep her.” (pg 316). He also talks about how he likes when people refer to Lucy Gray as “his girl.”
There’s a world of difference between Coriolanus and Tigris and Lucy Gray, but there’s also a world of difference between him and Sejanus. Let’s talk about their relationship.
Michaela: Sejanus is the only one who is seeing things for how they are and reacting appropriately. His outburst after Marcus was shown would be totally normal for most people who care, but people in the Capitol just look and go ‘oh wow that sucks’. He even knows how dangerous it is for him mentally and physically when he says “being Capitol is going to kill me” (pg 165). His mother also talks about how none of them belong in the Capitol or like it. I think Sejanus helps Coriolanus see how messed up it all is but then all Coriolanus ends up taking out of Senjanus’ actions is how it will ruin his chances or get the possibility of money from Senjanus’ father, Strebo.
Jacilyn: The other tributes express their distaste at the Hunger Games, but Sejanus is really the only one that is capable of having enough empathy for the districts to speak out against it. Honestly, Sejanus is incredibly brave. Like you said, he knows the dangers of speaking out, but he does it anyway. We see him sneak into the arena; even after another tribute ended Marcus’ torture, he felt that he needed to do his part to make his participation in the Games up to Marcus. I also think it’s really interesting that Sejanus’ intention in going into the arena was to become a martyr as an act of rebellion against the Capitol. He is brave, and he wants to do the right thing so badly, but he obviously still underestimates the real power of the Capitol. Coriolanus has to remind him that there is no way that the Capitol would broadcast his death to the districts, which is what finally convinces Sejanus to leave the arena. We see that, again, Dr. Gaul has absolutely no value for the life of any of these mentors.
I was actually surprised by the results of Coriolanus stopping by the Plinth house. I was expecting Strebo to be the kind of father that refuses to see the issues his family is having, who puts his fame and fortune above his family, but we actually see that Strebo agrees with Sejanus and “Ma” in that he thinks they don’t truly belong in the Capitol. He knows that they’re safer there, and that’s what he values the most, but he wasn’t even kind of tempted to try to pay off Coriolanus. It’s so refreshing to see a family like this in the Capitol, and I wish Coriolanus could learn from that.
Michaela: I was also surprised at how Strebo actually was in person. Sejanus’ opinion of him really skewed how I thought he was going to be. Also, Coriolanus was so desperate and thought so highly of his own actions that he expected the money, therefore I was also expecting it. I felt like Strebo saw right through Coriolanus honestly, especially now we know that Strebo and Coriolanus’ father crossed paths a few times. Strebo must be pretty familiar with Coriolanus’ personality from his experiences with his father.
Can I just say that Ma Plinth is an amazing and beautiful person and Coriolanus’ thoughts about her are so, so mean. Ma made custard for the Avoxes they ‘employ’ because she knows it's easier for them to swallow and she wanted to make them something nice. Ma also makes so much food so that she feels comfortable and then shares all that food with anyone who wants or needs it. Also, Coriolanus was dumping on her shelf of District 2 things, saying “it was pitiful, the way she clung to the backwards mountain region. Poor little displaced person without a hope of fitting in” (pg. 287). Like excuse me! Says the boy who still has his mother’s compact which he uses to sleep, who’s family is clinging to how things used to be for them, and who is also clinging to the way the Capitol runs. It’s ridiculous and it makes me so angry how horrible he truly is.
Jacilyn: I LOVE Ma! I know I haven’t shut up about how much I dislike Coriolanus, but every chapter gives me another reason to hate him. Ma is the loving, caring figure that he remembers his own mother being, and he still sees her love for Sejanus and her connections to District 2 as weaknesses. It is so interesting to read a book from the perspective of such an unlikable person. I’ve read books with unreliable narrators that have negative character traits, but nothing to this degree before.
I’m surprised that the Capitol didn’t kill Sejanus, honestly. Or Clemmie. I feel like there’s so much more going on with Clemmie and that snake attack, but I can’t figure out what it is. I’ve come to like Clemmie and Lysistrata quite a bit, actually, despite their flaws. I think it’s interesting that many of the other mentors are way more likable than the main character is. I also think it’s interesting that the competition between the mentors is relatively calm and well-natured. You really see the contrast between the way the older Capitol people in power interact with each other and other people and the way that the kids interact with each other and the world in general. With those in power, everything is aggressive, conniving, and we don’t really see that as much in the kids. It really goes to show how much the actions of the Capitol and people like Dr. Gaul negatively impact the children of the Capitol as well as those in the districts.
Michaela: Exactly. It goes back to the children being the only ones brave enough to approach the tributes. The academy students are able to put aside the competition enough to still be friends and if not friends at least civil. I feel like Collins, over and over again, points out how much more open, reliable, kind, and brave children are over the adults; and then how much adults can corrupt and change a child’s world view. Also, I don’t think I’ve ever read a book with an unlikeable main character either. Ones with flaws sure but never one I disliked so much and so consistently.
I was fully expecting Sejanus to mysteriously disappear and reappear in the same way Marcus did. As another lesson about going against the Capitol, I’m really confused why they didn’t do that. Or at the very least get rid of him like he ‘ran away’ or some sort of ‘accident’. Like that is the Capitol I thought I knew, get rid of the problem or make an example of it. They’ve done neither of those things and Dr. Gaul seems to be the one who would have ordered it to happen. I really feel like Dr. Gaul is the one running things in Panem right now, we hardly hear or see any decisions that come from the President. Dr. Gaul also has obviously been influencing or controlling Highbottom this whole time, and Coriolanus only just realizing “maybe Highbottom’s just as much a rabbit as I am” (pg 162) continues to show how self absorbed he is and how much power Dr. Gaul actually has.
Jacilyn: That message that Collins portrays about the adults and the children is definitely relevant to our world. Again, my favorite part about dystopians. And Gaul is definitely the one pulling the strings here. Which Coriolanus sees, and I’m sure that it influences how he rules once he’s president. He has ultimate control, not the Head Gamemaker. It almost seems like Dean Highbottom is trying to move out from under her claws every once in a while. For a second, I almost wondered if perhaps Highbottom had a hand in the bombing of the arena, as a rebel sympathizer. I’m not sure if that’s necessarily the case, but it’s clear that he has a big role to play here, and I really don’t think he’s on the side of Gaul and the Capitol. I also think it’s interesting that Coriolanus sees Dean Highbottom as out to get him, when it’s obvious that there’s more to this than that. Again, like you said, more evidence of how self absorbed he is.
Michaela: When Coriolanus is talking with Lysistrata before watching the Games she talks about how she feels used (pg 202) by Dr. Gaul and the Capitol as a mentor. Again something Coriolanus never thought of because he viewed it as an honor and to “gain a little glory”. Only after thinking about it does he realizes it’s “as if he were more a tribute than a mentor”. I agree, Highbottom is definitely trying to get out from under Dr. Gaul. During his interview with Lucky, Highbottom says something ‘radical’, according to Coriolanus, which is “To imagine that on either side we lack intelligence, strength, or courage would be a mistake”(of. 199). Meaning Highbottom is fully accepting that District citizens aren’t just dumb animals like Capitol people think. Even Lucky thinks this is offensive because he claims that you can obviously tell that the Capitol kids are a ‘superior breed’ to which Highbottom says, “one look tells you ours have more food, nicer clothing, and better dental care. Assuming anything more, a physical, mental, or especially a moral superiority, would be a mistake”(pg. 199). Highbottom is definitely not drinking the Capitol kool-aid anymore, and while I’m not sure which side he’s on, he at least doesn’t seem to look down on the Districts as much as the others. He is turning into a character that I want to know more about and talk more with.
Jacilyn: Oh yeah, Highbottom’s interview was definitely bordering on thoughts that the future President Snow would consider treason. If Highbottom could plant that doubt of superiority in the minds of Capitol citizens, they could potentially refuse to take part in the Games or at least demand that the torture of the tributes be put to a stop. Dr. Gaul can’t let that happen.
We actually see two new forms of abuse in the 10th Hunger Games. Coriolanus points out that the display of Marcus while he was still alive is entirely different from displaying the body of the tribute who killed Arachne. And Gaul uses the death of Breen after losing his legs in the arena bombing as an excuse to implement the muttated snakes in the arena. She is finding every chance to increase the torture of the tributes.
I still have a lot of questions about Lucy Gray and the snakes. I’m not sure if they’re implying that her singing is what’s charming the snakes toward her in addition to the fact that they recognize her scent from the handkerchief? But, again, her song was haunting and beautiful. It even seemed to take Coriolanus by surprise, and he almost trips up when he finds the camera and microphone in his face right afterwards.
Speaking of the tributes, I was surprised that Reaper didn’t end up being the most aggressive tribute. It was really interesting to see a few of the tributes showcase their different skills. Most spectators seemed surprised at this, so I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the first Games where that happened. We see Teslee hack the drones, which was so awesome, and we see Lamina scale up the beams.
Michaela: Dr. Gaul absolutely uses everything she can as an excuse to do insane things. Just like how she used Sejanus going into the arena as an excuse to teach Coriolanus a lesson. Then Coriolanus ends up killing Bobbin in such a violent way, Dr. Gaul totally was okay with it and I think she would have even been okay with Coriolanus dying too. She is literally torturing everybody she comes in contact with and she loves it. Also, Corinolanus choosing to kill Bobbin really shows how humanity is so easily lost in the Games which was something Dr. Gaul loved about the Games. Lucy Gray with the snakes is fascinating but also confusing because I also don’t know how it all works.
Reaper is so interesting, I can’t tell if he just went crazy or if he’s doing things this way to avoid being the main killer. I for sure think this is the first Games where the viewers get interested in the Games. So I fully expect that they will re-analyze everything that happened in these Games and the response they got from all the viewers. I would think this is where they got the idea for the tributes to train before the Games to develop or hone their skills, for the ally system in the arena and out, and for the scoring system. We already know Coriolanus and his classmates came up with the idea to display the dead so the other tributes know who died and who was left. I love watching those little details of the future Games develop during this one, and again it’s happening because they are using children to come up with the ideas.
Jacilyn: Really, there didn’t seem to be as much physical violence between the tributes as I would have expected. We see Reaper arrange the dead in an almost ritualistic, mourning way. We also see Lucy Gray and Coriolanus agree on a strategy really similar to that of Katniss in her first Games…. Get out of range of the worst of the killing, and hide out until other tributes start culling the field. Even with their rat poison idea, I think we only see two people directly killed that way - Wovey and Reaper. The arena itself was also just a really odd location for the Games. After the arena we see in the original trilogy, this literal sports arena makes the footage of these Games, well…. Not as exciting as I had hoped. Don’t get me wrong, the action definitely picks up and we see a lot of important and interesting things happen, but these games just seem muted. The end of the Games also seemed delayed, also.
Michaela: Reaper arranging the dead and using the Panem flag to cover them was pretty symbolic of how the Districts view the Capitol and Panem. Whether Reaper was mentally stable or not doesn’t really make a difference because I think he would have ripped up that flag to use it anyways. The Capitol people were so offended by the desecration of this flag and that really hit home for me. This is a common thing in our world currently too, people will use or position a flag in a certain way to represent how they view the state of a country and then people freak out about it. It’s a piece of cloth that people put so much symbolism in that they become unhinged when something happens to it. To see the parallel again between the Hunger Games world and ours was great.
I think these Games are muted. And a lot of that probably has to do with the lack of structure and thoughtfulness for the Hunger Games. Later on they have the training, multiple interviews, the opening ceremony, background on tributes, scoring, and some other things to give the Games this whole spectacle facade. I think this Games is where the Dr. Gaul and other authority leaders realize that in order to keep the Games going with support they have to make it entertaining and not just torturing children. During Katniss’ time she watches past Game footage with Pita and they come across a few failed ideas for arenas; like a dessert or a field where everyone either starved or just hid the whole time. I think the 10th Games is where they realize they need to change things up, just like how you have to change fashion every year to keep people interested. They need to change the arena, weather, available weapons, food sources, water sources, muttations, drones, etc.; all these things to make the torture more engaging to watch.
Then later it even becomes dangerous for the Gamemakers if it isn’t successful because they could be executed. I think one of the more interesting deaths was Jessup’s actually, and it wasn’t because it was violent but that it was so simple. Jessup contracted rabies while being forced to live in the zoo. We learn from Coriolanus that the rabies became a problem in the Capitol during the war. And yet when Jessup dies of it people in the Capitol say “brought it from the Districts I bet” (pg. 256). This is just another way the Capitol has killed someone but then blamed it on the Districts, changing history in their favor. It goes back to that quote “people have short memories in the Capitol” (pg. 12). It's absolutely ridiculous how quickly the Capitol citizens are willing to blame everything on the Districts.
Jacilyn: It’s all about removing the guilt from themselves in the Capitol. With Reaper’s death, we see Lucy Gray win the 10th Hunger Games. After celebrating and finally letting loose a bit, Coriolanus meets with Dean Highbottom and sees him sitting there with evidence of his tampering in the outcome of the Games. Immediately afterwards, Coriolanus is on his way to the Peacekeeper Academy. My reaction was immediately “what the hell just happened.” I had to re-read that passage another three times, trying to figure out what happened. My prediction is that Highbottom blackmailed Coriolanus, but beyond that I can’t make much rhyme or reason out of it. I’m looking forward to starting part three and finding out what happened between Coriolanus and Highbottom, and what happens to Lucy Gray after the end of the games.
Michaela: It was such a sudden ending that I was sure I had missed a page or something. I can definitely see Highbottom blackmailing Coriolanus. Or I could see the Capitol taking the victory away from Lucy Gray and Coriolanus to make an example of them, since him being a Peacekeeper is a pretty public thing. I wonder if that could be where later on as President Snow, Coriolanus has the obsession with “the Games must have a victor”. Either way I’m very excited to see how the rest of this story unfolds for everyone.
Part 2 picked up the action and left us with some questions. What part of the Games stood out to you most? What are your thoughts on Dean Highbottom? Do you think Coriolanus will see Lucy Gray again? Did we miss something you think we just *HAVE* to talk about? Comment below and join the discussion!
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