This week we are discussing The Parting Glass by Gina Marie Guadagnino , Page 217-end.
Spoiler Warning!!! This post is full of spoilers for The Parting Glass by Gina Marie Guadagnino.
Trigger/Content Warning!!! Sexual content, adult language, and racism
Discussion #3:
Jacilyn: Hello friends. Welcome to our third and last discussion for The Parting Glass. At the end of our last section, Mary had finally decided to resign herself to never having Charlotte, pending the latter’s transition to Mrs. Dawson. I thought things were kind of looking up for Mary, until things suddenly began falling apart in quick succession. I love the relationship that Mary has with Dermot, and enjoyed how Dermot finally came to be fond of Liddie himself, in spite of his predetermined prejudice towards her. I had hoped that the Hibernian would provide Liddie with a sort of “home base” to start recruiting her own girls, and that’s exactly what happened. They’re such a ragtag group of friends living such different lives and it’s wonderful.
Michaela: I don’t know where I thought this book was heading but what I do know was that I was not ready for the last part of this book. I really thought things were beginning to look up for Mary. I figured something would happen with Johnny but not in the way that it did. I also wasn’t quite ready for Mr. Dawson to be as insanely abusive as he ended up being. This book really surprised me at the end. It’s been a while since I felt that much shock reading a book, and I absolutely loved that feeling. The book did still end kind of happy which I’m glad for, because it wasn’t a simple happy ending. I thought it felt real. I think the ending of this book is what solidified how I felt about the whole thing and it made me love it. Which I was not expecting.
Jacilyn: I was definitely surprised by how the book ended. I think we were both on edge, expecting things with Johnny to blow up in some way. And I guess they did, although not in the way we were thinking. I think that things began to fall apart when Prudence ran away. To be honest, I was glad that she chose her freedom. My heart breaks for her, for loving Mr. Dawson, but clearly he’s awful so I don’t think she would be happy long term.
The parallels between Charlotte and Prudence and Johnny and Mary are interesting. Both pairs siblings (or basically, anyways), severely lacking communication. I think with proper communication, things could have turned out differently. All four of these people had blinders on when it came to the person they considered the closest to them. Mary couldn’t see the depth of Johnny’s love for Charlotte, and Johnny refused to acknowledge Mary’s much more fragile love for the same woman. Prudence wouldn’t ask Charlotte to tell her who had her heart, and Charlotte was too preoccupied with her own sorrows to acknowledge that Prudence was clearly in love with Mr. Dawson. I mean, come on everyone. Just have a conversation! Share your feelingsssss.
Michaela: I think Prudence’s feelings for Mr. Dawson were for the idea of him and the gentlemanly facade he put forward. Once she, who is very artistic and independent, found out how he really was, I think her heart would have broken.
I think all of them show different versions of the same thing: selfishness and pride. Though they are all kind in their ways, they are all ambitious in their own ways, and they all care for their people. But ultimately all of them refuse to speak with each other either from selfishness and/or from pride. Johnny is too prideful to admit that he saw Mary’s feelings, he was also too selfish to talk with Mary about it all because he wanted Charlotte. Mary was too prideful to admit her feelings, and too selfish to see Johnny’s feelings because she wanted Charlotte. Prudence was too selfish to see how haunted Charlotte was by having to marry Mr. Dawson, and too prideful to actually discuss her opinions outwardly. Charlotte was too selfish to see how Prudence was feeling because she was focused on her own suffering, and she was too prideful to just be with Johnny until it was too late and too prideful to just talk to Prudence. Then both selfishness and pride are what killed Johnny in the end, however it was Mr. Dawson’s selfishness and pride and not his own.
They all suffered from the same things just in different ways and this is what brings about many of their problems. Take a lesson from all of these characters: talk to the people you want to have a healthy relationship with. Just COMMUNICATE! Speaking of selfish people...Can we talk about Nuala Begley. Like how is that for a selfish, prideful person. Outright b-to the-itch if you ask me. I was so curious to know what had happened to force Mary and her brother to leave Ireland. And I was not expecting that to be why.
Jacilyn: They kept alluding to something Mary did that made them flee Ireland, and I was expecting her to have fallen in love with her mistress. I understand that Nuala acted out of self-preservation, but it was one hell of a betrayal and a choice she made entirely too easily. I don’t think Mary would have ever betrayed Nuala in that way. She loves entirely too fiercely to do anything like that. Here it is again, though - pride and selfishness.
I agree that Prudence is way too independent and creative to have been happy with Mr. Dawson. She was a prodigy, and I’d like to imagine that Prudence met Beethoven and fulfilled her dream of living for music.
And then Johnny shows up out of the blue, throwing acorns at Mary’s window like nothing fucking happened. Listen, I am angry at him. I do not forgive him for treating Mary the way he did, I don’t forgive him for the lies, and I don’t forgive him for the way he treated people as he rose to the top. I understand the desire to fight back against prejudice and oppression, but the things he did along the way were inexcusable, especially towards Liddie. I think he really did think him and Charlotte would have a chance if he fought for her, but Charlotte wasn’t willing to take the risks Johnny was.
As mad as I am at Johnny, he was right about Mary’s love for Charlotte. It was idolatry, an obsession. I believe Charlotte cared for Mary, and realized that Mary revered her, but I don’t think she knew it was romantic. Mary’s obsession with Charlotte made her refuse to see how Liddie cared for her - even as Mary said Charlotte’s name in bed, even as Mary complained of how unfair things were, Liddie continued to comfort, support, and love her. Liddie and Dermot are definitely my favorite characters. I think Liddie is enterprising, independent, strong, talented, and has a lovely heart and she deserves the best.
Michaela: I don’t think Nuala had any real love for Mary. I think for Nuala it was just a relationship where she was getting what she needed which was attention and sexual satisfaction. While for Mary it was both of those things but also love or at least something along the way to love. I can’t really see Mary doing that to anyone, even if she didn’t love them. I think Nuala just was not a good person.
I really wish we could know what happened to Prudence, but I too hope that she had a life full of music.
I was waiting for him to come back. You just knew he was gonna come back all innocent. I have no time for it. Then he has this grandiose plan to live happily ever after with Charlotte, and for Mary to just...follow along? Like he was STILL not thinking of Mary in his plan, other than for her to just exist in it. I can kind of understand him assuming she would come with since they had promised to stay together and had done so before in a big life change. HOWEVER, he had been gone for months with no word, so for him to just expect Mary to come with and donate her entire savings to this. No, just no, sir. I am still angry with him too and don’t forgive him, clearly.
That being said, I actually do think his plan would have been relatively successful. It would have been a culture shock for Charlotte for sure, but she would still have been a person of notability. Which is kind of all she wanted from her normal life. Also, Charlotte was so educated on what belonged to her and how to get the most out of what her family had given to her to help her and Johnny. I think Mr. Dawson’s behavior finally showed Charlotte what she was missing and how horrible her life was going to be because of that “high-society” pride. I think for someone who was so scared before to even consider a future with Johnny, to be completely willing to run away to a country she’d never been too before, she was really brave. I was so sad for her after what happened. She may be a problematic person much of the time but she didn’t deserve what Mr. Dawson put on her. I can’t imagine how he treated her after finding out she ran away to be with another man.
I agree. Mary’s love was an obsession and an idolization. We talked about that in our first discussion of this book. It’s not that her love for Charlotte wasn’t real, it’s that it was not a healthy kind of love. She could see no wrong in Charlotte even though she was doing wrong things and treating people wrongly at times. And all of this prevented her from feeling things for Liddie. Eventually Mary got there with her feelings but I think she didn’t know the extent of them until she began to let Charlotte go and not until the prospect of leaving Liddie behind. But even so, I think it was still there and a bigger reason Mary didn’t want to go was because she couldn’t watch her brother and Charlotte be together. Even when years had passed Mary still had feelings for Charlotte in a way, they may not have been as strong but they were still there.
I really loved Liddie’s character. I think her love for Mary was so real and unconditional, then when she asked Mary to not wake her and to just kiss her goodbye before she left. My heart actually hurt. That is one of the saddest things I’ve ever read in a book, it hits deep on a whole other level.
Jacilyn: The fact that Johnny assumed Mary would just fork the savings over made me real angry. He really didn’t think about Mary in this plan. Mary LITERALLY risked her life to smuggle Charlotte to the ship, which was made abundantly clear when Mr. Vandeman suddenly holds a gun to her head. I had tears in my eyes when I read the scene where Mary is on the ground with Johnny, looking into his eyes as he dies. Can you imagine? The trauma of that is incredible. And you know what? I think Charlotte saved Mary’s life. She grabbed Mr. Vandeman’s arm as he shot the gun, which caused him to hit Mary’s foot instead of somewhere more fatal.
I think it’s safe to say that Charlotte went on to live a life of abuse. Mr. Dawson clearly considered Charlotte his own property, and he wouldn’t have taken kindly to her trying to flee. My heart breaks for Charlotte. I agree that over time, she began to see the reality of her life, and wanted more than that. I can’t fault her for loving Johnny. I only wish she was more attune to the feelings of others. For Prudence and Mary’s sake, at least. And I think her visit to the Hibernian Queen was necessary for both herself and Mary to finally find some closure. Just like with Prudence, I’d like to believe that everyone went on to live their lives with a bit more comfort.
Speaking of the Hibernian Queen, though, can we talk about that rebrand? Dermot is one hell of a man to partner with a Black female “stargazer” and a female Irish immigrant in the 1830s. Honestly, my ideal ending included the three of them working together in Liddie’s own brothel, and that’s basically what happened. In that way, the conclusion was happy, but it was bittersweet also. Like you said, I think Mary will always love Charlotte, but she found the strength to draw boundaries and I think that would empower her to focus on her happiness and healing.
Michaela: The savings made me ridiculously angry. Like how DARE he. With still no clear position for her in this life he wants to create. Mr. Vandeman’s appearance and the violence he incited. I was literally shaken to my core, I in no way thought that that was going to happen and especially not by him. Maybe I missed any signs of his true purpose but I was not ready for that. I teared up at Johnny’s death as well but the shock of what had just happened really held the tears back from spilling. I have a sister and I don’t think I could have been as brave as Mary was to sit with her brother and comfort him as he died and then walk all the way back to the Hibernian for help. I think I would have just laid there in traumatized shock for hours until someone found me honestly. I think Charlotte saved Mary by grabbing Mr. Vandeman, too. If she hadn’t done that Mary would definitely be dead, no doubt in my mind. Mr. Vandeman had no reason to keep her alive.
I agree with the assumption that Charlotte’s life was full of abuse. I think by her carrying her child’s gloves that that child or children are the only things in that life that give her light. To me it felt like she was clinging to the gloves for safety, which happens a lot to people going through difficult things. You focus on the things that make you happy like children or pets and that gives you strength.
I loved that Dermot finally came out with his aversion to Liddie, and in the end it was just that she was British. He may have had other aversions before, we really don’t know, but I chuckled at that reason. Dermot, Mary, and Liddie are the best trio and I absolutely love that they’re all working together. No only does Dermot have his successful business but Liddie has started hers. Mary didn’t have that same dream originally but she got away from the service life which she did begin to dream about. And then this business was also helping those who were being treated unjustly in the United States. I love it, all of it. But like you said it was bittersweet. I do wish that Charlotte and Johnny could have had their own happily ever after. I didn’t like either of them really but I did wish the best for them.
I think Mary truly has become happy, she will obviously always miss her brother and she may never lose all her feelings for Charlotte. But she’s happy and with friends. That’s all I want in life is happiness and good friends.
Well that’s it for this book friends. I hope you enjoyed it as much as us. I think this book might have changed my mind on reading historical fiction!
What did you think of Johnny’s plan? Were you as shocked as we were at Mr. Vandeman’s appearance? What about that rebrand and the business trio? Let us know in the comments below!
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